Does HAL have an obligation to disclose...???

[Cruzin]

Having just returned from the Zuiderdam and before I post my views on our experience, I pose this question to one and all...........Do you feel that HAL has any obligation either ethically or morally to disclose to its passengers the mechanical problems of its propulsion system that currently exists on board the Zuiderdam? To the extent that this problem creates an atmosphere that is not standard in the industry and certainly is not expected from the passengers who book passage on the Zuiderdam. It is also a problem that is not uniform to all passengers as those that draw the aft tables in the dining room are subject to something that others are not.

 

[ashuma]

What problem?? As for any vibration in the aft section, I have felt it on all ships with the Azipod propulsion system and expect some on the Zuiderdam -- including the Amsterdam. But as someone else just posted on this board, he did not think it was so bad and he was in an aft cabin. Sounds like people are looking for things to complain about the Zuiderdam. With the speed the propoulsion system gives you, some vibration seems to result.

 

[Cruzin]

Annie,

If you have not been on the Zuiderdam then your opinion as to the severity of the vibration on board is of no consequence to me as you do not have 1st hand experience. As to the previous post you refer to that is in ref to a cabin and not the dining room.

As to our situation............it is a problem and one acknowledged by the Hotel manager and Captain in personal meetings with both. And we were advised that the only way the problem will be fixed is when the ship goes into dry dock sometime in Dec. 2003.

p.s. Thanks for your inconsequential opinion and if you sail the Zuiderdam and become more acquanited with the problem let me know.

 

[sail7seas]

I have cruised Zuiderdam and agree there is a vibration at some of the very aft dining tables on the lower level of the dining room. We were upper level and did not have any problem at all. We had no vibration problems on Rotterdam deck either.

Cruzin.....I am interested as to exactly what you mean by the problem. I am confused if you mean it was with your cabin or your dining table...or both?

 

[Cruzin]

sail7seas,

To set one thing straight as I have been reading from peoples responses, I am not one who is looking for a complaint on the Zuiderdam and this being my 10th cruise I feel I have a good idea of what to expect and what not to expect. I think when you read my review (which I hope to post within a day or two) that you will feel I was straight forward.
Enough said........

The problem is in the dining room and NOT the cabin. We had second seating, Deck 2 and in the aft of the dining room. This is where the problem is. It does not exist on the upper deck nor does it exist in the forward half of the dining room.

It is a big problem as one cannot carry on a conversation with their table mates. We were at a table for 8 and could not carry the conversation with those at the other end of the table. It was frustrating for all and two of our table mates were 1st time cruisers and very disappointed. We did our best to assure them that this is NOT normal and NOT to judge their experience on the dining room.

The noise and vibration is like having the Rolling Stones and Aerosmith playing beneath your table for 2 hours. It is so bad that it really does make the china rattle. Quite comforting to hear as you walk to your table each night. It will ruin your dinner!!!

The staff itself is also fully aware of the problem as we spoke with the 2nd Maitre d'..Jessica who attempted to change our table but do to the ship being at capacity was unable to accommplish this. She visited our table nightly and she too made comments on the amount of noise and again attempted to move our table and even put us on a "floating status." Since she did all she could and could do no more we approached Marion Koopman. She too acknowledged the problem and appologized for the noise and the fact that they did not have another table to seat us at. She stated they are aware of the problem and have been trying to slow the ship during dining hour to compensate for the noise and vibration. We spoke with Capt. Jack who assured us the problem is going to be addressed in dry dock. As this does not help our situation Marion did provide us with dinner in the Odyssey on HAL one evening and sent wine to the table on two occasions. I can't say enough for Jessica and Marion as they are in a difficult position and they couldn't have been any more accommodating.

Sail...........I know you are a HAL loyal customer and this was our first with HAL but we were VERY disappointed. We thought HAL was a step above and found that not to be the case. My complaint is not with the ship itself or the staff but the HAL Inc. for allowing passengers to book a cruise without knowledge of the problem. It is a problem that they are FULLY aware of and one they will address in dry dock sometime in Dec. 2003. It is a problem that they will only address on a case by case basis. If you complain maybe you will get some wine or dinner in the Odyssey................sure is cheaper than letting customers know this before they sail. Don't get me wrong as we were VERY greatful for the offer and fully enjoyed an evening of fine dining and most of all QUIET!

Capt. Jack spoke with us one evening and assured us of a quiet dinner as he slowed the ship and transfered the power from one propeller to the other to compensate for the noise and vibration. It was funny because that night the wait staff hustled to get us out of the dining room as Capt. Jack said he would have to transfer the power back by 10 in order to make the next port.

My question that I posed was whether people felt HAL has any obligation to disclose this information and from what I read people don't feel they have any obligation and I say shame on all of you! I feel they do have an obligation and if it cost them money by doing so then that is the price they pay and if it cost them too much then they should dry dock the ship early and fix the problem. Since it is known through out the company that the Zuiderdam has major problems they owe it to paying customers to make an educated decision on whether they want to sail under those conditions.

Sue

 

[sail7seas]

Thank you for a very balanced, fair and I am sure absolutely accurate explanation of what you meant. Seeing as I know (very well) every one of the persons you mentioned, I know that what you say is what happened. I also know that vibration does exist and do not think you are by any means a "complainer". The unfortunate part is Seattle apparently does not realize how bad those few tables are effected and they sell the ship to capacity which leaves no room to avoid seating anyone in those few tables. Perhaps if they dined there one night, they would understand. It is one thing for Seattle to be told by ship's crew that they do not want to seat people at that table...it is quite another to grasp how bad it is if you are seated there.

I regret you experienced this and hope your next HAL cruise will be far more to your expectation......if there is a "next one".

I know you are not being a complainer....thank you for your lucid explanation.

 

[csj]

I called and requested an upper level table by the windows....do you think that's a safe request as far as the noise is concerned?

 

[Cruzin]

YES! You should have no problems on the upper deck or in the forward section of Deck 2. Have a wonderful cruise.

:cheers
Sue

 

[csj]

Thanks, maybe you saved us some unwanted aggravation. By the way, when I called, the young man I spoke with said that he had not heard of problems with noise in the dining room, but he's probably up in Seattle or some such place.

 

[sail7seas]

That is exactly the problem....IMO

The crews on the ships have to seat every passenger in the dining room at one table or another. If Seattle paid more attention to this problem, until such time as Zuiderdam goes into drydock and the problem is (hopefully) corrected, they would only sell passage to the number of pax who could be comfortably seated. Then the crew on the ship would be able to leave those few tables empty and no pax would have to endure the discomfort.

It isn't that many tables/people who are effected. If they would sell a few less "tickets", those few tables could remain unoccupied until the vibration problem is repaired.

 

[lamayboy]

Post Edited (06-06-03 14:01)